Comments on: Is Salesforce.com’s Apex a Platform? http://www.saasblogs.com/business/is-salesforcecoms-apex-a-platform/ Understanding the "as a Service" Revolution Thu, 02 Feb 2012 05:34:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Sinclair Schuller http://www.saasblogs.com/business/is-salesforcecoms-apex-a-platform/#comment-1016 Sinclair Schuller Wed, 07 Feb 2007 15:06:47 +0000 http://www.saasblogs.com/2007/02/06/is-salesforcecoms-apex-a-platform/#comment-1016 Ken, I think you're right from the standpoint that perspective does matter in Matt's discussion. If a platform is defined by a root application (Apex and Salesforce.com) and the platform was built to support that application, deviation from the maximum capability of the root application isn't possible. Meaning, if you could do it on the platform, so could they. From a developer POV, imagine Microsoft touting that the "next Microsoft Word" could be built on the Office Platform. Something doesn't ring right about that. We've mixed application and platform. Now, saying "the next Microsoft Word could be built on the Java platform" well, that's believable. Does Apex create a literal cieling? Possibly not. People can find ingenious ways to deliver value around technical limitations. I do believe that platforms will be home to the next big thing within some category of software (CRM, BI or otherwise). -Sinclair Ken, I think you’re right from the standpoint that perspective does matter in Matt’s discussion. If a platform is defined by a root application (Apex and Salesforce.com) and the platform was built to support that application, deviation from the maximum capability of the root application isn’t possible. Meaning, if you could do it on the platform, so could they. From a developer POV, imagine Microsoft touting that the “next Microsoft Word” could be built on the Office Platform. Something doesn’t ring right about that. We’ve mixed application and platform. Now, saying “the next Microsoft Word could be built on the Java platform”
well, that’s believable. Does Apex create a literal cieling? Possibly not. People can find ingenious ways to deliver value around technical limitations. I do believe that platforms will be home to the next big thing within some category of software (CRM, BI or otherwise).

-Sinclair

]]> By: Ken Rudin http://www.saasblogs.com/business/is-salesforcecoms-apex-a-platform/#comment-1015 Ken Rudin Wed, 07 Feb 2007 14:53:09 +0000 http://www.saasblogs.com/2007/02/06/is-salesforcecoms-apex-a-platform/#comment-1015 Hi Matt. I think your argument that Apex "only allows you to be as good as salesforce.com, but no better" doesn't really hold water. You're mixing the platform discussion (which is developer focused) with the application discussion (which is business user focused). My company (LucidEra) creates a SaaS Business Intelligence platform *and* SaaS BI applications on top of that platform. While it's true that our partners can't build apps that fundamentally go beyond the capabilities of the platform, that in no way means their apps can't be better than ours (and I'm sure they will be better in many cases). Compare this to Microsoft Windows (the platform) and Microsoft Great Plains (the app). Developers can't build apps that go beyond the capabilities of Windows, but they can certainly build apps that are much better than Great Plains. Hi Matt. I think your argument that Apex “only allows you to be as good as salesforce.com, but no better” doesn’t really hold water. You’re mixing the platform discussion (which is developer focused) with the application discussion (which is business user focused). My company (LucidEra) creates a SaaS Business Intelligence platform *and* SaaS BI applications on top of that platform. While it’s true that our partners can’t build apps that fundamentally go beyond the capabilities of the platform, that in no way means their apps can’t be better than ours (and I’m sure they will be better in many cases). Compare this to Microsoft Windows (the platform) and Microsoft Great Plains (the app). Developers can’t build apps that go beyond the capabilities of Windows, but they can certainly build apps that are much better than Great Plains.

]]> By: Matt Ammerman http://www.saasblogs.com/business/is-salesforcecoms-apex-a-platform/#comment-1013 Matt Ammerman Wed, 07 Feb 2007 10:20:17 +0000 http://www.saasblogs.com/2007/02/06/is-salesforcecoms-apex-a-platform/#comment-1013 Arun.PC,

Precisely!

Executives who must evaluate their stance on SaaS and push their company either towards or away from the model need to be able to make decisions based on many factors.  And once committed, must be able to remain flexible in their ability to change strategy. ”Because it’s the only platform available right now” isn’t a good reason to commit to Apex. The SaaS landscape is evolving so quickly that although Apex may currently be the prevailing mindshare winner (as you put it – the “poster child”), there may be better platform solutions out there already, or on the horizon.

Your choice to use the word ‘hype’ is very interesting. I get the feeling from many of the people I’ve spoken to in the industry that SaaS is so early still that much of what is being said IS hype. Given that, I would personally hold off on directing my company towards choosing a particular SaaS platform until the hype is demystified a bit more (which is why SaaSBlogs.com is here!) Especially if there’s no way for me to easily back out of my decision with my code and other efforts intact (lock-in).

Thanks for your comment.

- Matt

]]> By: Arun PC http://www.saasblogs.com/business/is-salesforcecoms-apex-a-platform/#comment-1012 Arun PC Wed, 07 Feb 2007 03:52:47 +0000 http://www.saasblogs.com/2007/02/06/is-salesforcecoms-apex-a-platform/#comment-1012 Matt, Right now, there is a lot of hype around SaaS and the CIOs are under tremendous pressure justifying their SaaS standpoint(whether they are favourable or not). So for those people who are committed to SaaS have few options other than Apex as of now. Platforms from Jamcracker and Progress are present in the marketplace but Salesforce.com is still the poster child for SaaS. Hence, CIOs are still the process of evaluating the business value as of now.They have decided to plunge into SaaS and their question is "why not salesforce.com's Apex". One thing is for sure.We dont need a "Yet another proprietery language and platform". What are your views Matt? Thanks, Arun.PC Matt,
Right now, there is a lot of hype around SaaS and the CIOs are under tremendous pressure justifying their SaaS standpoint(whether they are favourable or not).
So for those people who are committed to SaaS have few options other than Apex as of now. Platforms from Jamcracker and Progress are present in the marketplace but Salesforce.com is still the poster child for SaaS. Hence, CIOs are still the process of evaluating the business value as of now.They have decided to plunge into SaaS and their question is “why not salesforce.com’s Apex”.

One thing is for sure.We dont need a “Yet another proprietery language and platform”.

What are your views Matt?

Thanks,
Arun.PC

]]> By: Matt Ammerman http://www.saasblogs.com/business/is-salesforcecoms-apex-a-platform/#comment-1009 Matt Ammerman Wed, 07 Feb 2007 00:48:56 +0000 http://www.saasblogs.com/2007/02/06/is-salesforcecoms-apex-a-platform/#comment-1009 Alexey, Thanks for your thoughtful response. Note that my intent was not to frame Salesforce.com as a competitor nor attempt to validate my own pursuit. Since the SaaS industry as a whole is still in its nascient stages it's important for general discussion to happen that clarifies elements of SaaS for everyone involved. The industry deserves to be able to move forward with comfort and knowledge through this clarification of some very early concepts - such as the platform. Cheers, Matt Alexey,

Thanks for your thoughtful response.

Note that my intent was not to frame Salesforce.com as a competitor nor attempt to validate my own pursuit.

Since the SaaS industry as a whole is still in its nascient stages it’s important for general discussion to happen that clarifies elements of SaaS for everyone involved. The industry deserves to be able to move forward with comfort and knowledge through this clarification of some very early concepts – such as the platform.

Cheers,
Matt

]]> By: Alexey Gavrilov http://www.saasblogs.com/business/is-salesforcecoms-apex-a-platform/#comment-1006 Alexey Gavrilov Wed, 07 Feb 2007 00:04:01 +0000 http://www.saasblogs.com/2007/02/06/is-salesforcecoms-apex-a-platform/#comment-1006 My answer is "who cares?". Let's say that Apex is *really* a platform. It doesn't make it worse and doesn't add anything to it. Since you are working on the SaaS platform yourself I guess that the real question you are asking is "How what I do is different from what Salesforce does? How it's unique and better? Maybe it's just that what I make is a PLATFORM and what they offer is not?" To me it doesn't matter, what is Apex. The only thing that matter is what is you. If you do it the way your customers need it -- you will win. My answer is “who cares?”. Let’s say that Apex is *really* a platform. It doesn’t make it worse and doesn’t add anything to it. Since you are working on the SaaS platform yourself I guess that the real question you are asking is “How what I do is different from what Salesforce does? How it’s unique and better? Maybe it’s just that what I make is a PLATFORM and what they offer is not?” To me it doesn’t matter, what is Apex. The only thing that matter is what is you. If you do it the way your customers need it — you will win.

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